The Sandman
When the Scout Update was released a week ago there were a lot of players saying that the new weapons were useless and that none of the new weapons would be used for competitive play. In a ETF2L forum thread several div1 players commented on the new weapons (be aware that they made these comments shortly before/after the update was released):
Riemu: Baseball bat: Fail? Scout without duckjump only really is good for scouts who dont jump. For them however, this little baby should be ownage. But do these non-jumping scouts really exist? I’ve only heard legends so far…
(…)
They all sound kinda nice. Its the same as the Pyro and Heavy Update though. The live testing will show if they are actually any good. I personally feel that they are all 3 not really useful as permanent replacements (like the medic ones)
Mick: great pack imo , it’s not like the scouts need any up !
SKiNNie: since the new weapons are completely useless i dont see a reason not to allow them
sandman -> u only got one ball + no double jump
energy drink -> u stand still for 2 secs (animation) + u cant use weapons + it doesnt last long (so u gonna arrive just as fast as without it)
force of nature -> knockback effect is minimal, less dmg, less bullets , ..I’m kinda happy that the weapons are useless so it doesnt change the competitive play.
But after having played some pickups and pcws there has been a general consensus that The Sandman (the new bat + ball) does alter the competitive gameplay quite a lot. Suddenly the game depends a lot on who gets bonked; if your demoman or medic gets bonked in the beginning of a round you will most probably lose that round.
Some people even say that The Sandman is overpowered. Overpowered? A sniper can take away 150 damage from across the map only by aiming for the body. The baseball you can actually dodge, but you can’t dodge a sniper shot. A sniper can single-jump, a scout with The Sandman can also only single-jump. With The Sandman you basically only have one try unless you can pick up your ball again quickly, with the sniper you can keep trying. So how is The Sandman overpowered?
I guess it’s overpowered because of two things. First of all, when you get stunned you can’t do anything. And it’s not for 1 second, it’s more like 4-5 seconds. You can’t shoot. You can’t move. That will kill you in a 6v6 match, if not from the scout then from sticky/rocket spam. So a scout can run to middle, shoot the ball and possibly get a free kill. That changes the gameplay a lot. Secondly, if you choose The Sandman over the normal bat you only lose the double-jump ability. You still have your incredibly powerful scattergun. You still have your 33% speed advantage. You can just stun an enemy, run towards him and kill him, and then run away without dying. The scout doesn’t really risk anything when using The Sandman: From a medium-long distance he can try shooting the ball, if it misses he just runs away to safety. If it hits, he gets a free kill.
Some people are saying that regardless of which unlockables Valve release we should allow them all in our leagues. The reason is that “change is good”. But you gotta ask the question: Why are we playing this game? We are playing TF2 because we like the gameplay. And if you alter the gameplay a lot, then the players might not like the game anymore. That’s why we shouldn’t just blindingly accept what Valve presents us with. Change is good – but if you change a game too much then you suddenly have another gameplay, hence another game.
We want to play TF2 in its current form. We also want refreshing changes, like the Kritzkrieg and Natascha were. But being stunned for 5 seconds doesn’t fit into the gameplay we are used to when playing TF2. I guess that’s why the professional North American league CEVO-P have chosen to ban The Sandman. Some of the European leagues also have decided to either ban The Sandman or ban all Scout unlockables.
The question now remains, will The Sandman be banned by ETF2L? Judging from the general opinions of the competitive community, my guess would be yes. We won’t have to wait long to know though, according to a thread on the ETF2L Forums they will post an announcement tonight.
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haha actually i did that comment , few mins after the update went live , i was not aware than the ball was so easy to hit against heavy classes 😛
spagnard noob, how are we suppose to take you serious !
Well, it shows that our initial assumptions about updates aren’t always true. 🙂
idd that comment was before we even played pcws/pickups
I think etf2l just made the same mistake asuming that the new weapons are useless
always nice to see statements ripped out of proportion
a) my statement was made 2-3 days before the update (judging from cadred timestamps, cba to investigate). Therefore your sarcastic hint at how we made those statements after the update was released is utterly bad news posting skillz!
b) if you would have posted the full statement you could have seen the following sentence: “They all sound kinda nice. Its the same as the Pyro and Heavy Update though. The live testing will show if they are actually any good.”
As you can see, I was just taking a guess on how these weapons could be useful or not.
Anyway, let’s blame ETF2L for being retarded. But I guess that’s not really news!
PS: I don’t have any of them yet ;(
PPS: Haha Mick, posted after the Update. You fucking retarded Morron! But that’s not really news either!
The update was released the night between Tuesday and Wednesday and your comment is posted 7 days ago. So yeah I guess you posted it the day before the update was released.
I did write a link to the source where you wrote it, but I can add the extra line if that makes you happy!
The most effective new weapons valve create will be the ones that break certain gameplay truths, for example random crits > achieved crits and nataschas slow down. Criticals in 6v6 didnt (shouldnt!) happen, and there was no way to slow people down before Natascha. These were always at the cost of some other strong benefit, like invincibility, or even higher DPS than Natty.
The problem with the Sandman is that it breaks too strong a truth with its benefit, and the negative doesnt cover that cost. If a ball hits, because the player cannot respond at all, enemy Soldiers and Demos lose their biggest weakness: its harder to hit projectiles at long range. You may not be killed, but the pressure resulting from that small time of inability can easily mean your team becomes overwhelmed by pressure. You lose a CP, or you lose a player, where the previously mentioned weapons either force you to pull back as a team or solely yourself, or they kill you. This weapon forces your team to pull back, and they kill you, or your team stays and tries to deal with the added pressure.
F2 – the update was in 4 CET
if they fixed the blowback function, and maybe boost it a little, thats how i would think they scout should have been from the STAart… the real scattergun is just too good….. this new one is more like a scout weapon than the currently. i would like to see a game where the fan was the only shotgun allowed 😛 would be cool to see the scout nerf =)